Founder of Pronunciation with Emma, Emma Walker, addresses myths surrounding teaching pronunciation, from misconceptions about the skills we need as teachers to common mixups between accent and pronunciation.

Key talking points

Myth 1: Certain Teachers Can't Teach Pronunciation

• Emma emphasises the importance of mindset shifting among teachers, learners and the wider community.

• Teachers who speak English as a second language can still effectively teach pronunciation and provide an inspiring role model for learners.

• Resources like Emma's YouTube channel provide valuable guidance for building confidence in teaching pronunciation.

Myth 2: Accent Equals Pronunciation

• While accent and pronunciation are connected, they are not the same.

• Accent refers to regional or cultural speech patterns, while pronunciation focuses on specific sounds.

• Emma illustrates the distinction with practical examples and highlights the importance of intelligibility.

Myth 3: Pronunciation Lessons Are Limited to Short Activities

• Emma challenges the misconception that pronunciation lessons can't fill an entire class.

• She recommends resources like Mark Hancock's "English Pronunciation in Use" series for structured lesson planning.

• Elementary-level materials can be adapted for advanced learners, providing clarity and simplicity in pronunciation instruction.

References

Links will direct you to resources Emma mentions in this episode.

1. Baker, A. (2006) Ship or Sheep? Book and Audio CD Pack: An Intermediate Pronunciation Course. Cambridge University Press; 2nd edition

2. Baker, A. (2006) Tree or Three?: An Elementary Pronunciation Course. Cambridge University Press; 2nd edition

3. Hancock, M. (1995) Pronunciation Games. Cambridge University Press

4. Hancock, M. (2017) English Pronunciation in Use. Cambridge University Press

Watch the video with closed captions or refer to the transcript below.

Transcript

00:00:00:03 - 00:00:32:11

Laura

TESOL Pop season nine, episode two. Hello and welcome to TESOL Pop; the mini podcast for busy teachers. My name is Laura, and joining me today to talk about common myths in teaching pronunciation is the founder of the hugely popular YouTube channel Pronunciation with Emma. It is, of course, Emma Walker. In this episode, Emma is going to tackle common myths in teaching pronunciation myths, such as there's a certain profile of teacher who could teach pronunciation myths that accent and pronunciation are the same thing.

00:00:32:17 - 00:00:45:12

Laura

And lastly, the idea that we can't spend an hour on teaching pronunciation. More on this in just a minute. But first, let's jump to where I asked Emma, how did she get into teaching pronunciation as her area of expertise.

00:00:45:17 - 00:01:12:04

Emma

I think I started out as many English teachers, just kind of, sticking to the textbook and teaching kind of general English. You know, I started teaching in summer schools and things like that. So everything was very general. And one thing I realised that was really, really lacking was pronunciation. And I, I realised that a lot of students really wanted to learn about pronunciation.

00:01:12:04 - 00:01:43:18

Emma

And whenever I corrected that pronunciation, or we did a lesson on pronunciation or even just ten minutes at the end of the lesson, they they really enjoyed it. But the the thing that really triggered all of this, like the thing that started pronunciation with Emma, let's say, is when I used to teach one on one classes back in Bristol, I remember my students would would confuse how I said things like they want to show how I was saying, like what I was saying, basically.

00:01:43:23 - 00:02:09:15

Emma

So I would say things like, oh, do you have a car? And they were like ‘a car? What's a car?’ And I'd be like ‘a car,’ like ‘beep beep. You know, like a car. ’ And they would just look at me like, ‘what? What are you talking about?’ Like, they would sometimes get it with the, you know, with the beep beep thing, but sometimes I would have to write it down on the board and they would be like, ‘oh, car or car.’

00:02:09:15 - 00:02:30:15

Emma

You know, they'd be trying to pronounce that, that ‘r’, you know, that ‘r’ sound. And I would have to kind of explain like, no. like in many areas of the UK, we don't pronounce the, ‘r’ so yeah, it's car. And then I would spend a lesson on, teaching parts of pronunciation that would help them with their listening.

00:02:30:15 - 00:02:43:15

Emma

So I actually started teaching pronunciation to help my learners with their listening and understanding, not to improve their confidence when they speak. And for clarity, it all started with their listening.

00:02:43:17 - 00:03:04:05

Laura

That's so fascinating that it came out of that need of noticing your students struggling with differentiating between different sounds, different accents in this case, the rhotic accent of the r. This is the non rhotic. and how that's often not covered in the course books that you're using. It just there isn't a lot of scope, particularly in the course books I've used in the past.

00:03:04:05 - 00:03:15:08

Laura

I know of course books have obviously developed and that they're working on that. but the ones that were using, I mean, I was using course books printed in the 90s. So I was I.

00:03:15:10 - 00:03:31:06

Emma

There's a big difference now. I think they're really like textbook writers, and course creators are starting to wake up and realize my pronunciation is actually important. It's not just a ten minute filler. Oh yeah, or something you do at the end of the lesson. It's actually important.

00:03:31:06 - 00:04:03:15

Laura

Yeah, 100%. So in this episode, we're going to talk about myths and common myths surrounding learning and teaching pronunciation. The first one is quite common, not just for teachers, but for marketing materials that I still see schools use. And this is that there's a certain profile of teacher who can teach pronunciation, and K and teachers who don't speak English as their first language may doubt their ability to be effective role models in teaching pronunciation or be the recipients of people marketing campaigns that kind of impress that upon them.

00:04:03:19 - 00:04:10:14

Laura

How can we tackle this massive myth as the first one in this episode as well? Let's start with a difficult one.

00:04:10:16 - 00:04:35:04

Emma

I mean, starting with the question, how do we tackle this? Yeah, it all starts with mindset shifting, and I think a lot of it isn't necessarily the the teachers mindset. It's let's call them that the customer's mindset. And I say customer because the customer might not necessarily be the student. It could be, for example, the students parents who are paying for the lessons.

00:04:35:06 - 00:05:01:03

Emma

And unfortunately in some countries they believe that if their children are exposed to the same air you know, as a native speaker, they will sound like a native speaker. And we all know that that's just not true. If you feel that you're a teacher in this situation and you think, oh, I can't teach pronunciation because I don't feel I'm a good enough role model, we'll start with that one.

00:05:01:05 - 00:05:31:24

Emma

For sure, you, the perfect role model for your students. you have been through the process of learning English as a second or third or fourth language, and that in itself is an inspiration to your students. So if your students can look to you as a teacher and say like, oh my God, Miss, whatever your name is, Miss Smith has achieved this level and I want to sound like her.

00:05:32:01 - 00:05:56:20

Emma

You are inspiring that in your students. So give yourself some some credit. You know your students really, really look up to you. And the second thing was, I know if you feel that you can't teach pronunciation and it could honestly just be a case of not knowing how to teach pronunciation, if that makes sense. Like when I was doing my [Cambridge] CELTA.

00:05:56:20 - 00:06:18:03

Emma

I don't know if you did CELTA but when I did mine, the pronunciation part was literally like an hour long. and it was just like going through the IPA and it was like, oh, well, you don't really have to learn. It's not that important enough. And it was so brushed over, like, can you imagine doing that with the grammar section?

00:06:18:05 - 00:06:47:19

Emma

Like, oh yeah, here's a few times says la la la la. I'm just moving on. Like, let's do listening. I don't know, something else. it it's something that's so neglected in our teacher training. So sometimes we don't feel the confidence to teach it simply because we don't know how and we don't know it. It's like trying to when you're a new teacher and your student ask you a question about grammar and you're like, oh my God, suddenly I don't know anything about English grammar.

00:06:47:19 - 00:07:10:12

Emma

I don't know how to explain that. And you go into that moment of panic and then you're like, I hate teaching grammar. I hate teaching it, but yet you hate it because you're just not quite, quite yet, you know, to, to explain things. So it might be worth, I mean, you'll welcome anyone listening or watching this to take a look at my YouTube channel.

00:07:10:14 - 00:07:43:17

Emma

I explain pronunciation there so you feel free. like you're very free to copy how I explain things. I remember there is a conference I went to, and, some teachers, they recognized me had like a moment of like, you know, teacher won't recognize me. They say, oh, yeah. Yeah. I actually watch your videos, and these were two guys from England, I think now and then they were like, oh, yeah, we seen your channel and we actually watched your videos, so we can steal how you teach things.

00:07:43:17 - 00:08:02:12

Emma

And I could teach to my students. And I love that because I feel like I'm, I'm kind of passing something on that, like, I'm not just teaching people who watch and teaching teachers who can pass it on. So that's a good place to start. And then the more you get interested in it, you can take a look at books, take a look at courses, how to teach pronunciation.

00:08:02:12 - 00:08:06:00

Emma

There are there are plenty. so yeah.

00:08:06:00 - 00:08:25:15

Laura

That was a really difficult myth to tackle. But you've talked about skill set. You've talked about teachers as learners, and the masses of resources, including your YouTube channel that help teachers grow confidence in teaching this skill. So it's not about your background in terms of what languages you speak. It's about your skill as a as a teacher.

00:08:25:17 - 00:08:36:19

Laura

So moving on to the second one. And it's it's interconnected. And that's this notion that accent and pronunciation are the same thing. Yeah we've heard this one before. Right?

00:08:36:21 - 00:09:09:06

Emma

A lot, a lot. I hear it at least once a day. so there is a difference between the two. But they are like sisters or cousins, you know how we want to call them. But but they are connected. so accent basically refers to the way you speak, depending on where you were born, where you were brought up, potentially your education, your background, your culture.

00:09:09:08 - 00:09:40:03

Emma

It depends on so many different factors when it comes to pronunciation. We're talking more about the specific way that we say the words, and the way that we say the words isn't necessarily connected to a location, if that makes sense. So, you know, I can give an example like if we're teaching pronunciation and your student comes to the class and they say this chair is very comfortable, okay.

00:09:40:03 - 00:10:06:01

Emma

Very common, I hear that all the time in Spain. Comfortable. It's not an accent. Yeah. It's not what Spanish speakers would say. So if I corrected that and I said oh no, it's comfortable, then I'm changing pronunciation. Then. Then the focus is pronunciation. But let's say for example, a student says car and I say oh no, in RP [Received Pronunciation] it's car.

00:10:06:07 - 00:10:33:02

Emma

Now I'm not changing pronunciation. I'm talking about accent. I'm teaching them a very specific way of saying the word. They could be easily understood by saying car. so hopefully that distinguishes the two. So they are connected. And when you teach pronunciation you are also teaching an accent. You are teaching your accent because everyone has one. There's this big belief that, you know, certain people don't have accents.

00:10:33:19 - 00:11:01:21

Emma

but literally once you open your mouth and you speak, you have an accent. what's interesting is that your accent might also change. Like, I think probably the first time we met, it was at IATEFL last year [2023] and I was in Yorkshire. I am from Yorkshire originally and so my Yorkshire accent came out so much more and people were surprised like, ‘oh you, you’re an English teacher; I’ve seen your videos, you don't sound like that.’

00:11:01:21 - 00:11:08:10

Emma

You know, it's almost like they met this other persona, you know, like they met the Yorkshire Emma.

00:11:08:12 - 00:11:24:19

Laura

It’s interesting what you say about these differences in pronunciation and accent; like they are connected, but with accent there are lots of variations. Like there RP, as a minor kind of accent. Not many people speak it [RP] these days. But like the rhotic accent, like said, where the pronunciation of ‘r’ is there. The non-rhotic accents, where the ‘r’ is dropped.

00:11:24:24 - 00:11:45:06

Laura

It's down to just preferences, where people are and whatever model is most comfortable for the teacher to use, and the materials they're bringing in as well. But the other example you gave that was an example of correction of error. And that's that's the difference there, right. Where there's an intelligibility issue because there's errors within the pronunciation of the word.

00:11:45:12 - 00:11:52:19

Laura

No matter if it's an American pronunciation that the student is going for, whatever the accent, it's, it's causing a strain for intelligibility.

00:11:52:21 - 00:11:56:01

Emma

That that's it. And that is the difference. You know.

00:11:56:02 - 00:12:13:05

Laura

Let's move on to the third myth, and that is you can't dedicate a whole lesson to pronunciation. In fact, you didn't see this, this kind of like element that you just drop into classes here and then it's a five minute activity, maybe if you fit it in at all. But a whole lesson. No way.

00:12:14:06 - 00:12:32:22

Emma

yeah, it it really bugs me when I hear people saying things like, I can't plan a lesson entirely on pronunciation, because that's like saying I got an awful lesson on reading. I got a full lesson on grammar. That's not me. Like we can happily plan lessons on the present. Simple. But we can't plan a lesson on the schwa.

00:12:32:23 - 00:13:10:10

Emma

Like, yeah, you got. You just need to again know how to do it. Because we're not taught during our teacher training. I mean, I can't speak for every cause. I'm focusing more on the sound to hear, but we're not taught how to teach pronunciation and how to plan a pronunciation lesson, but it essentially follows a similar path, you know, to everything else, if you're struggling to teach pronunciation, and I'm still in our, let's say, like you got an hour lesson, there are textbooks that do focus on teaching pronunciation and only pronunciation.

00:13:10:11 - 00:13:39:13

Emma

My personal favorite is the English pronunciation. I'm trying to remember who wrote it. English pronunciation in use by, Mark Hancock. That's his name. I should know that because he writes a lot. Actually, Mark Hancock's a really good guy to follow because he focuses on pronunciation and helps teachers teach pronunciation. He's he's really good. So his books are excellent.

00:13:39:13 - 00:14:17:00

Emma

Some of the ones, [Anne Baker’s] Ship and Sheep. and Tree and Three. So Ship and Sheep is the intermediate and Tree and Three is the elementary, version. That's by Anne Baker. So, they're really good books. even if your students are at a C1 [advanced] level, personally, like I've, I've used materials from elementary books, like, I've used stuff from Ship and Sheep with like C1, C2 level because the stuff is just so clear and the activities are so, so simple.

00:14:17:02 - 00:14:28:16

Emma

So you can take those resources and turn those into lessons if you like, if you're really not sure. And that will kind of give you a bit of structure to your lesson.

00:14:28:16 - 00:14:36:05

Laura

It's been so enlightening talking to you today, and I thank you so much for talking about these myths and sharing your expertise on the topic of pronunciation.

00:14:36:07 - 00:14:38:17

Emma

My pleasure. Thank you so much for inviting me.

00:14:38:17 - 00:14:57:15

Laura

To find out more about Emma's work. Then go to her website pronunciation with emma.com, or check out her Instagram and YouTube channels again; pronunciation with Emma and all those links are in the show notes, so you can easily find them. If you have a question or you have an idea that you'd like to pitch for the podcast, you can contact us via Instagram, Facebook or the website TESOLPop.com

00:14:58:09 - 00:15:15:00

Laura

Finally, if you love what we do, you can support us by leaving a rating and review wherever you listen to the podcast. By sharing today's episode with your teaching community or by even buying us a coffee at ko-fi.com/tesolpop

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