Author of How to Write Inclusive Materials, Tyson Seburn, discusses a disruptive approach to building greater empathy and inclusion in the language classroom. In this interview, Tyson walks through the five stages of the disruptive approach and suggests topics, questions, materials and activities we can use for each lesson stage.

Key talking points

Defining Disruptive Approach:

Tyson explains that a disruptive approach involves incorporating marginalised voices' unique characteristics and lived experiences into lessons to raise awareness and promote inclusivity.

Identifying Unfair Social Norms:

Tyson provides examples of unfair social norms, such as access barriers for disabled individuals at beaches or discriminatory dress codes, like the restriction of burkinis in certain areas. Educators can initiate discussions on social inequities by selecting themes relevant to learners' daily experiences and empowering students to recognise and challenge unfair societal norms.

Situating Social Norms:

Tyson suggests using visual aids and asking critical questions to establish a baseline understanding among students. By presenting scenarios like beach access for disabled individuals or discriminatory dress codes, educators can prompt discussions and deepen students' awareness of social inequalities.

Bringing Authentic Experiences:

Tyson underscores the significance of incorporating real experiences of marginalized individuals. By sharing firsthand accounts, educators offer valuable insights into the effects of social norms, nurturing empathy and comprehension among students.

Building Personal Connections:

Encouraging empathy, Tyson prompts students to engage with the struggles confronted by marginalised communities personally. This approach fosters solidarity and comprehension across diverse backgrounds, deepening students' understanding of societal challenges.

Working Towards Solutions:

Emphasising action-oriented learning, Tyson underscores the importance of collaborative problem-solving. By collectively devising solutions to address social injustices, students engage in meaningful language practice while advocating for positive societal change.

References

Links will direct you to resources Tyson mentions in this episode and more.

1. Seburn, T. (2021) How to Write Inclusive Materials. ELT Teacher 2 Writer

Watch the video with closed captions or refer to the transcript below.

Transcript

00:00:00:04 - 00:00:25:19

Laura

TESOL Pop, season nine, episode four. Hello and welcome to TESOL Pop, the mini podcast for Busy Teachers. My name is Laura and join me today to talk about a disruptive approach to teaching materials is author Tyson Seburn. Tyson in this episode talks about what disruption means and how we can make our classes more inclusive by following the five steps that he refers to in his latest book, How to Write Inclusive Materials.

00:00:25:19 - 00:00:30:11

Laura

Let's join the conversation where I asked Tyson, what does a disruptive approach mean?

00:00:30:11 - 00:00:56:03

Tyson

A disruptive approach, and I use that for lack of a better term, is a little bit more focussed on using the characteristics that are unique and the lived experiences to marginalised voices as part of the lesson, so that we're raising awareness, with the students or we're helping other students see themselves and their experiences in the materials as well.

00:00:56:05 - 00:01:18:15

Tyson

So that's kind of where a disruptive approach emerges from in comparison to a usualisation approach. And then to be more specific or concrete, a disruptive approach. I give five situations, that can help you build a disruptive approach lesson. I can give you those five right now if you'd like.

00:01:18:17 - 00:01:25:00

Laura

Yes, please. I think that will really help to, cement what this what this looks like and how it's different from usualisation.

00:01:25:02 - 00:01:46:02

Tyson

First of all, you want to identify a social norm that is kind of unfair. it's either unfair to, a bunch of marginalised groups or at least one group in some way, shape or form. So I would suggest like choosing a theme for a lesson that is something that the the learners can experience in their daily lives in some way.

00:01:46:04 - 00:02:15:07

Tyson

I might be a belief or it might be a behaviour, might be some social inequity. Things like that. for example, one might be at a beach. So if you think of a beach situation, who has issues going to the beach or who has barriers accessing the beach, or if you think of a beach scenario, what type of group might not be able to enjoy the same things as other people

00:02:15:09 - 00:02:47:08

Tyson

at the beach? And they think one of those, could be disabled people, people who are in wheelchairs might be a situation, in that case. Another example might be people who have, clothing restrictions, according to their belief systems. So I remember there was a, a pretty, well-known news story that was coming out of France at one point where bikinis were fine in French areas on, on, beaches.

00:02:47:08 - 00:02:50:15

Tyson

But the burkini weren't actually fine.

00:02:50:19 - 00:02:51:04

Laura

I remember that, yeah.

00:02:51:09 - 00:03:21:12

Tyson

And so that could be an example of a, an unfair situation that marginalises a group of people. But you could also go with the wheelchair situation as well. That would be another one. Another example of a social norm that, is a little bit more focussed on queerness would be with regards to public washrooms. So when you think about all the different types of washrooms that are available at a restaurant or at an airport or in the school or any public place, and you think about, what types of washrooms are available.

00:03:21:12 - 00:03:47:04

Tyson

There's quite often just a binary system of those washrooms. So we call those gendered washrooms. And so we could use that as a platform to start our lesson as well. And then once we have, picked that social norm that causes this type of barrier, then what we want to do in a lesson is situate this social norm through, visuals or texts or, you know, those can be written or audio for the learners.

00:03:47:04 - 00:04:11:14

Tyson

And this gives kind of, the learners, but also the teacher a little bit of a baseline, understanding of common experience. Right. So do the learners think this is a barrier? Do the learners experience barriers themselves? Is there some kind of connection that a learner can make to this situation? So if we go kind of back to the two examples I gave, initially.

00:04:11:19 - 00:04:32:15

Tyson

So the beach one, for example, we might ask learners to think about a typical beach or a pool culture, kind of like I did earlier with you and ask about who you can see at a beach and what they're wearing. Maybe you'll show a picture of a typical beach scene in France with lots of bikinis and Speedos, and you might not see any burkinis at all.

00:04:32:18 - 00:04:56:00

Tyson

Right? And then you might ask them to decide if everyone would feel comfortable going to this beachfront. Why or why not? So the point here is to bring in the sort of media that's going to situate, this social norm and try to get the learners to generate, a little bit about whether they sort of have even thought about whether there is a problem in this, this situation.

00:04:56:00 - 00:05:24:18

Tyson

So once you've had that sort of baseline of students talking about what they think, then it's important to actually have authentic input from people, who are experiencing it themselves. So this is where you can bring in at least one text. whether that's you know, an article or a story or a video or, you know, something, someone talking about the situation from their perspective, at least one of those bring those in.

00:05:24:18 - 00:05:48:13

Tyson

So if it was, you know, about the beach, it would be important to bring in audio, for example, of a woman who feels uncomfortable at this beach. and she talks about her beliefs in her body and her exposure, to, needing to cover up and maybe the perceptions of other people about judging her body, you know, all sorts of things like this.

00:05:48:15 - 00:06:28:18

Tyson

are important to bring in. So the students have, actual exposure to the lived experiences of the people whom you're talking about. The next stage of disruption is then to try to get students to build personal connections to these experiences and these problems caused by the social norm, even if they aren't experiencing them themselves. So in in that sort of situation, you want the students to think of scenarios, perhaps that do impact them in a similar way to the way it's being, impacting these, people that they're not a part of the marginalised group with.

00:06:28:22 - 00:06:54:14

Tyson

So, you know, if it was the, beach situation and we were talking about, bikinis and, and women who, from their, their faith cannot wear a bikini at a beach and therefore they don't go to the beach or something like that, then maybe people would be willing to talk about their own experiences, about being judged at the beach in some way, shape or form.

00:06:54:16 - 00:07:14:04

Tyson

It might in this case be an opportunity for students who have disabilities to say, you know, I can't get into the water, right? So while I don't have exactly the same experience as this person we've been talking about, I have another experience that's kind of similar to this. I also experience a barrier. Let's try to solve these problems for both of us.

00:07:14:10 - 00:07:27:09

Tyson

I think in this fourth stage, you're kind of trying to get the students to build connections between the marginalised group and the issues that they have, and maybe yourself and your own experiences. So there's some empathy going on.

00:07:27:11 - 00:07:38:07

Laura

I was about to say that that sounds like it's a really good kind of reflective exercise to get them to really like, say, connect. And empathy was the one thing that was coming to mind as you were describing that.

00:07:38:09 - 00:08:08:20

Tyson

Agreed. I mean, I think empathy is probably I mean, Kieran Donahue would probably agree with me here. one of the main reasons or ways in which you can solve quite a few problems, you know, if if people just think about how other people are experiencing the world, instead of, feeling that they are only looking from their perspective all the time and cannot identify at all with these weird people, right?

00:08:08:22 - 00:08:22:14

Tyson

If they stop doing that and they build a little bit more empathy for each other, then a lot of these problems, I mean, may not go away, but certainly we can work towards solutions rather than, you know, just having fear or avoiding them.

00:08:22:18 - 00:08:42:01

Laura

Listening and emphasising, I think, would, resolve a lot of challenges and open up space for communication to, to bring people close together. You had another step, I think you wanted to mention. So, can we recap the four steps you've done to this point, because we've covered lots of ground with, the introduction of the idea to, the empathy that you just mentioned.

00:08:42:02 - 00:08:44:11

Laura

Would you mind just doing a quick recap before the final step?

00:08:44:11 - 00:09:05:15

Tyson

Sure. So the first one is to identify a social norm that's unfair or marginalises at least one group of people. that's sort of on the teacher's end. Then the second is to situate that social norm for learners through visuals or texts, and asks and critical questions to establish a baseline of understanding with the students about it.

00:09:05:17 - 00:09:39:05

Tyson

The third one is then to bring in the, you know, authentic, real, marginalised individuals experiences of this social norm so that it provides insight to how it actually marginalises rather than just guesswork. The fourth, then, is to ask students to build personal connections to these problems that are caused by the social norm, by either, bringing in their own experiences of something quite similar to that, or even something that is marginally similar to it, and to build some empathy.

00:09:39:07 - 00:10:01:17

Tyson

between one group and another group of students. And then the last one is to really work on solutions, right? So to improve the situation through some sort of activity. And that would be the one where you're practising the language, obviously, you know, that you've been targeting throughout this. As we as we said, don't forget the language component.

00:10:01:19 - 00:10:22:23

Tyson

but in this case it might be tasking the learners with coming up with speech rules or etiquette. you know, in that first situation, something that's going to make a beach better for all members of society, not only you or the marginalised group, perhaps that you're talking about, but they could be related to clothing or pets or smoking or wheelchairs or anything like that.

00:10:22:23 - 00:10:50:16

Tyson

Maybe in the washroom situation, you're you ask students to think about, okay, well, how could we, change the existing spaces we have in public areas to, make it work for all types of people trying to go to the washroom? You know, I went to, some restaurants around here in Toronto recently, and there's quite a few now that are completely genderless.

00:10:50:16 - 00:11:13:17

Tyson

They're just there's a common area where you walk in to wash your hands, and then there are like stalls with no indication of who can go into them. It's just sort of anybody, but they're completely closed, right? It's not like you can sort of see under or anything like that. So there's, you know, that's an example of a solution that has worked in some cases for this situation.

00:11:13:19 - 00:11:17:06

Tyson

And maybe they went through this type of lesson to come up to that. You're not.

00:11:17:08 - 00:11:29:24

Laura

Yeah. Maybe that's what inspired the whole design. You never know because architects and designers are usually in those kind of bouncing ideas stages around tables. And that's how they come up with these solutions. So why can't we just bring that kind of practice into the classroom itself?

00:11:30:01 - 00:11:51:12

Tyson

Exactly. And you never know who's in the classroom anyway, because that your students, if you know, they're adults, might actually be architects or people in situations like this. So, you know, you never know what you're going to teach or what students are going to take away from these situations. and I think we've kind of all learned that over time, right?

00:11:51:14 - 00:12:09:01

Laura

Yeah. Tyson, it's been really talking to say, thank you so much for talking about this disruptive approach and unpacking these five steps in how you can bring it into the classroom. To close today's episode, could you please share where can listeners find out more about your book and read more about this to apply it to their, teaching context?

00:12:09:06 - 00:12:34:20

Tyson

So I talk about it quite a bit. I think if you're on social media, you can follow me at @Seburnt I'm pretty much that everywhere, but, on this sort of inclusive practice, this topic, there's a pretty unique hashtag. I don't know if you've seen it or not, but it's #howtoinclusive. and it kind of bucks the trend of grammatically correct, sort of hashtags.

00:12:34:20 - 00:13:02:05

Tyson

And so it's quite noticeable and memorable I think. So it's #howtoinclusive that's going to bring up a lot of posts, I think. And I'm one of the only people that uses it. So it's pretty easy to find it. But it stems from my book, as you can see, how to write inclusive materials. When I first wrote this book, or sorry, when it was first published and I was starting to promote it, I thought, okay, I need a hashtag of some sort to make it simple to remember.

00:13:02:07 - 00:13:24:04

Tyson

And so I played around a little bit with it, but it just came from the title. Right how-to and then inclusive. And if you write the whole book title, it's just ridiculously long. So this was just a happy coincidence. And it not only sort of, makes it easy to remember because it's so odd, but it's also easy to remember because it's the title of the book.

00:13:24:06 - 00:13:52:18

Laura

Fantastic. As always, I've included those links, including the link to Tyson's book in the show notes, so you can find them easily. So click there to find out more. If you have a question or an idea that you'd like to pitch for podcast, you can contact us via Facebook, Instagram or the website TESOLPop.com. Finally, you can support the work we do by leaving a rating review for this episode or by sharing today's episode with your teaching community, or by even buying a coffee at ko-fi.com/tesolpop

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