S8E9: Going From Good to Great in Writing

Writing Tutor and Coach, Paul Duke, shares what distinguishes a good piece of writing from a great one and how coaching can help learners become great writers.

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Key talking points

Teaching vs. Tutoring vs. Coaching:

Paul explains the differences between teaching, tutoring, and coaching, emphasising the focus on introducing subject matter, improving existing skills, and achieving specific goals, respectively.

Characteristics of Great Writing:

Paul highlights the importance of precision, clarity, persuasiveness, and engagement in great writing, emphasising its power to change the reader's thinking and entertain.

Tips for Developing Writing Skills:

Paul shares tips for coaches to help students develop writing skills, including thoughtful analysis of strengths and weaknesses, customised programs, targeted feedback, and iterative revision.

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About Paul

Paul is a Canadian English teacher, writer, content creator, and coach who works with writers to develop and enhance their skills. In addition to being the co-host of the Trouble With Writing Podcast, he is also known on Youtube as The Grammar Detective. On that channel, he hosts the weekly livestream Hard-Boiled English Live, and the web series English Weirdness. Recently, he has launched a brand new Youtube channel focused on English writing skills called The Writing Workshop.

You can learn more about Paul's work by following him on LinkedIn here.

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Watch the video with closed captions or refer to the transcript below.

Transcript

00:00:00:03 - 00:00:20:19

Laura

TESOL Pop Season eight, episode nine Hello and welcome to TESOL Pop: the mini podcast for busy Teachers. My name is Laura and joining me today to talk about going from good to great in writing is Paul Duke. Paul is an English language teacher and a writing coach. He's also the founder of The Grammar Detective and The Writing Workshop YouTube channels.

00:00:20:24 - 00:00:36:07

Laura

In today's episode, Paul's going to share the difference between teaching and coaching. What makes a piece of writing great? And ways in which we can help students to develop their writing skills. Let's jump to where I asked Paul about the difference between teaching, tutoring and coaching.

00:00:36:09 - 00:01:06:10

Paul

I've played all these roles. A teacher, I would say, is someone who introduces subject matter to a student, information they haven't learned yet. So you're introducing concepts, techniques, etc. That's teaching, instructing. We may may overlap with that too. So, teacher Instructor you're introducing material. As a tutor, work is mostly focused on improving something that someone is struggling with, a subject matter they've already been introduced to.

00:01:06:12 - 00:01:53:02

Paul

So for example, I've worked with high school students who have already learned composition and English in their class but aren't doing so well. So they need help. They need remedial help reviewing techniques they've learned, and they need some practice with focused attention. So that's, I would say, tutoring. Coaching tends to be more specifically geared towards a goal. So a student that has an assignment, a specific assignment that they're trying to complete or achieve or proficiency exam that they're preparing for or a professional position, Somebody may wanting or anticipate a promotion, but they have to prepare their language skill to him to an improved level.

00:01:53:04 - 00:02:23:23

Paul

So coaching like we can the analogy obviously is sports. In sports, a coach is helping a player who already knows how to play the game, to helping them improve and focus on winning a championship or defeating a specific opponent. So if we take that analogy and apply it to a student, let's say trying to pass a written proficiency exam, that exam is the opponent, that the exam is the contest and the opponent obviously is themself.

00:02:24:00 - 00:02:40:14

Paul

That's what I would call coaching is improving. Someone who already knows how to do something. But you're taking them to the next level, challenging them, right, With advanced techniques, challenging them to do better, drawing it out of them. That's coaching.

00:02:40:20 - 00:02:55:12

Laura

I imagine you've seen thousands of pieces of writing and as a result, I bet you have a good sense of what separates a good piece of writing from a great piece of writing. Would you like to share a few characteristics that you see that distinguish the two?

00:02:55:14 - 00:03:28:03

Paul

Good writing is precise. You're you're communicating your ideas with precision. They're exactly what you thought and the reader can comprehend them with precision. There's no ambiguity. There's no questions remaining for the reader. So precision, clarity, right? Your idea is clear to the reader. There's no doubt about what you're expressing to the reader. And more than that, it's powerful.

00:03:28:05 - 00:03:54:07

Paul

Your writing is persuasive. Every piece of writing has a goal, even if it's not a classical argument, essay or piece. Everything written is an argument. Even if, for example, you asked your friend, What are the three top bands in the UK this year? If they're giving you their opinion of this band, this band and this band, that's an argument because they're trying to convince you that that's true.

00:03:54:09 - 00:04:35:01

Paul

So all types of writing are in a sense an argument and you want to win the argument. You want to persuade your reader to change their view or at least accept your view. So the idea of powerful writing is important. So if we're going to move from good, let's say a good piece of writing as clear, fairly precise and interesting, let's say great involves precision, clarity, and that sense of power that it can actually change the reader's thinking, persuade them to rethink what they believe, and maybe even adopt what you believe because you're so persuasive.

00:04:35:03 - 00:05:02:17

Paul

And when you and when you get to that level, writing can truly change the world, even if it's just the world of one other person who reads it. So that sense of power. And one other thing about great writing is there's an element of entertainment. Great writing is engaging. All writing should be engaging because you have to. There's no reason why the reader should read it.

00:05:02:19 - 00:05:36:03

Paul

If I hand someone an essay, they're not obliged to read it. I have to make them want to read it by using the techniques of engaging introductions and hooks and all those techniques that bring a reader in Great writing engages the reader, but also entertains them, makes them enjoy the process of being persuaded by you, Right? So there's an element of, you know, seduction in the writing and that can involve things like humor, wit, even the driest academic topic.

00:05:36:05 - 00:05:44:08

Paul

The great writers sprinkle in a little bit of humor or wit to make it an enjoyable read. Of that of that material.

00:05:44:10 - 00:05:57:23

Laura

Thinking about what you do as a coach and helping students go from good to great in academic writing specifically, do you have any tips to share that listeners could try to help their students develop their writing skills?

00:05:58:00 - 00:06:37:06

Paul

There's no magic to it. As I said, writing is a skill, so you have to practice it. How you practice it is your is your big question, right? So I think one of the things you have to do initially is assess where your writer is at. So you need samples. You need to get them to produce samples or study what they've produced already and, you know, do a thoughtful analysis of their strengths and weaknesses so you can determine how and with what you're going to help them rather than putting them through a rigid course or program that you already have established.

00:06:37:08 - 00:06:59:19

Paul

In other words, to get their money's worth from you as a coach, they're paying you for customized attention, right? They can learn techniques in a class, but then they don't get the personal attention to the professors is going to give them really circumspect kind of feedback if they're going to pay you for private coaching, which can be expensive.

00:06:59:19 - 00:07:25:16

Paul

I don't certainly I certainly charge amply for what I do. It's because you're going to customise a program to suit their goals and fit their weaknesses and needs, and they're going to get the personal attention from you that they're paying for. So thoughtful analysis of where they are is the starting point. So that's that's crucial. Do that for sure.

00:07:25:18 - 00:07:50:14

Paul

And then as you design the customised program for that person, you can focus on what they need to learn that they don't already know. And so you can introduce your new techniques or even your philosophies at that point. And that's where it overlaps with teaching. There are there are some things they may need to learn that they've never learned before from you or things that are unique to your your, your philosophy of of writing.

00:07:50:16 - 00:08:17:17

Paul

And also you may need to do some remedial work and correct things that they've been taught. Not well. Sometimes when students are learning something, they may misinterpret what a teacher has taught them and carry the misinterpret misinterpretation forward and holding to it. So they may need some correction there. And let's face it, they just may have learned something that's not really that helpful from a teacher. None of us teachers are perfect.

00:08:17:19 - 00:08:42:00

Paul

So there's an element of actual teaching of technique and craft that they need to know or an advanced level of the craft introducing challenging new techniques that they may never have thought of. That may have been really great in high school. They may be the top student in high school, but if they're entering university, they're in a classroom full of the top students in high school.

00:08:42:02 - 00:09:09:13

Paul

So how to how to get above them and get that better grade and you know, cause waves among the the the faculty lounge. You have your primary obligation as a coach of writing in this case is providing feedback because there are a lot of great books teaching people how to write the craft of writing. But what they can't get from that is feedback.

00:09:09:15 - 00:09:31:18

Paul

And there are lots of ways to practice writing. But what they can't do that, what they can't get on their own is feedback. And every writer needs feedback because you need to know what you're doing wrong, obviously, but you also need to do it. You know, you also need to know what you're doing right and to to build on that and to repeat it.

00:09:31:20 - 00:09:59:04

Paul

And someone has to point that out to you so they can they can use grammar software like Grammarly to to identify their grammar and spelling errors. They don't need you for that. They need you to analyze their content and the delivery of their ideas. So the feedback to me is the most essential thing. So the other thing they need to do, obviously once you give them feedback, is they need to rewrite, right?

00:09:59:04 - 00:10:20:22

Paul

There's no point in getting feedback and saying, Thank you teacher, that's very helpful. If they don't try to apply those, apply the feedback and the tips you give them. So as a coach, you challenge them to rewrite based on what you've given them. And the way I developed my feedback is that the feedback is designed. I have a goal in mind.

00:10:20:22 - 00:10:44:09

Paul

I know what this could be, even if they can't see it because they're still learning. A coach has an idea of how good they can be or how good that document can be. So with that vision in mind, I'm challenging them with specific feedback that I believe will get them, get them there. So for example, a paragraph might have a clear statement of an idea, but it doesn't elaborate.

00:10:44:09 - 00:11:05:04

Paul

And as a reader, I have lots of questions like why? Why do you say that? How is that true or when does that happen? I'll put those kind of questions on the feedback so it challenges them to think about it and include it in their next draft. And this way, the next draft after the revision is a step above.

00:11:05:04 - 00:11:36:12

Paul

It's better. And once they've written better, they know what it feels like. They know what's expected of that. So then the next assignment, a different topic or a different paper. We're going to start at the second draft level. We started that we reached in the last assignment so that we're always going up as a like a stairway. So every time they read a second or third draft, it establishes a new normal for them, a new expectation, so that they're always getting better and they know what it feels like, right?

00:11:36:12 - 00:11:55:07

Paul

It's like in sports. Back to that analogy, if you have won a championship, you know what it feels like. And you know what it took to get there. You can build on that and do it again. That becomes your new standard. It becomes the new standard of what you want for yourself, but also the expectation of what's achievable.

00:11:55:09 - 00:12:30:01

Paul

So I'm always designing my feedback toward the revision that I think is possible with this, with the student challenging them to get there with with specific information that will help them get there. It's not enough just to give feedback. I think saying that this is wrong and this is wrong or even giving them a suggestion, it really helps to have feedback oriented towards a specific vision of what a second draft could be and then give them feedback on the second draft and have them do a third draft if time and resources permit that.

00:12:30:03 - 00:12:49:24

Paul

So for me, I think that's where a student really gets their value from working with a coach. That's your primary. What's the word primary benefit that you're providing is that feedback. That's something they can't get on their own. That's something no writer can.

00:12:50:01 - 00:13:06:17

Laura

It's been lovely talking to you today. Paul, thank you so much for shedding light into this world of writing, coaching and English for academic purposes and coaching students and to write better academic essays. It's been really inspiring and it's a world I didn't know about. So thank you so much for your time.

00:13:06:19 - 00:13:08:02

Paul

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

00:13:08:07 - 00:13:27:05

Laura

To learn more about Paul's work, including the writing coaching services he offers, you can go to his LinkedIn or you can check out his YouTube channel called The Writing Workshop. He also does grammar tips. If you haven't checked that out, you should go to Hardboiled English or go to The Grammar Detective YouTube channel. All of those links, as always, are in the show notes.

00:13:27:05 - 00:13:48:21

Laura

If you have a question that you'd like us to answer or a topic that you'd like us to discuss on the podcast, then you can pitch to us on Instagram, Facebook, or the website, TESOLPop.com Finally can support the work we do at support by leaving a rating and review wherever you listen to the podcast by sharing today's episode with your teaching community or by even buying a coffee at ko-fi.com/tesolpop

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