S9E5: Becoming a Legal English Teacher

Natasha Costello, co-author of Practical English Language Skills for Lawyers and a legal English educator, discusses career pathways to teaching legal English. In this episode, Natasha shares insights into learners' needs, lesson content, and suggests resources for anyone interested in exploring teaching legal English as a career.

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Key talking points

Getting into teaching:

Natasha recounts her transition from a solicitor in England to a senior lecturer at Manchester Metropolitan University, where she taught law and legal skills. Relocating to France, she discovered a niche in teaching English communication skills to French lawyers, leading to her legal English education career.

Relevance of English for French lawyers:

Natasha explains the growing necessity for French lawyers to use English, mainly when dealing with international clients or counterparts from other countries where English serves as the lingua franca. This necessity is driven by global business interactions and international legal practices.

Paths into teaching Legal English:

Natasha identifies two main groups of legal English learners: legal professionals and university law students. She explains that educators can come from various backgrounds, including law, business English teaching, linguistics, or even translation.

What Legal English teaching involves:

For legal professionals, lessons may focus on preparing for client meetings, writing emails, contract drafting, and other specific legal tasks. University students may focus more on vocabulary and grammar, but practical scenarios and elements of legal systems, history, and politics are also integrated. Natasha highlights the TOLES exam, which some programmes prepare students for.

Lesson example:

Natasha describes a typical lesson focused on contract law. She teaches the vocabulary of contracts and the grammar needed for giving legal advice, using real-life scenarios to help students practice this language.

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About Natasha

Natasha Costello is a legal English educator based in Paris. She has over 20 years of experience teaching law students and legal professionals.

Natasha is passionate about bringing the real world of legal practice into the classroom. She recently co-wrote, with Louise Kulbicki, the book ‘Practical English Language Skills for Lawyers: Improving Your Legal English’, which helps students practise language and workplace skills simultaneously.

Natasha regularly presents at conferences about teaching legal English and is on the Board of EULETA, the European Legal English Teachers’ Association.

Vist Natasha's website here to learn more.

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References

Links will direct you to resources Natasha mentions in this episode and more.

1. European Legal English Teachers Association (EULETA)

2. Costello, N. and Kulbicki, L. (2023) Practical English Language Skills for Lawyers Improving Your Legal English. Routledge. Teacher Notes are under the ‘support material’ tab on the Routledge website here.

3. Haigh, R. (2021) International Legal English. A Practical Introduction for Students and Professionals. Routledge

4. Study Legal English Podcast with Louise Kulbicki

5. Test of Legal English Skills (TOLES)

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Watch the video with closed captions or refer to the transcript below.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:29:23

Laura

TESOL Pop season nine, episode five. Hello and welcome to TESOL Pop, the mini podcast for busy teachers. My name is Laura, and joining me today to talk about becoming a legal English teacher is Natasha Costello. Natasha is the co-author of Practical English Language Skills for lawyers, as well as a legal English educator herself. In this episode, Natasha shares her journey into becoming a teacher as well as gives insights into students needs and what happens in a legal English classroom.

00:00:30:00 - 00:00:34:02

Laura

Let's join the conversation where I asked Natasha to share how she got into teaching.

00:00:34:04 - 00:01:09:15

Natasha

I have a background in law and education, so I started my career as a solicitor in England, practising lawyer, and then I became a senior lecturer at Manchester Metropolitan University. So that's where I did my teaching qualification, and I was teaching law and legal skills. So oral communication skills and legal writing skills. And then about 15 years ago I moved to France and I followed my husband with his job.

00:01:09:17 - 00:01:33:16

Natasha

And really it was through word of mouth and a language school that I discovered French lawyers who were looking for help with their English communication skills. And that's how I started teaching legal English. And I also found some work teaching legal English at some universities in Paris as well.

00:01:33:18 - 00:01:41:03

What is the role of English and how is it relevant to lawyers in France? Because I would have thought that would have been they would have just operated in French.

00:01:41:09 - 00:01:50:00

Natasha

That is such a good question. Yes. so I think that's what French lawyers always thought as well. So I would say.

00:01:50:00 - 00:01:51:07

Laura

I’m not alone!

00:01:51:09 - 00:02:18:11

Natasha

No, a lot of my clients particularly, you know, they didn't learn English when they were studying their law degree. They do now. but I think there are two things. One is often they find they're working for clients who are then bought by an American or English company or something like that. And so they they discover they have to deal with, for example, the human resources manager in England.

00:02:18:13 - 00:02:38:11

Natasha

And so they need to speak English with the client. The other thing is that English can also be the the common language. So they'll be dealing in an international environment. And perhaps the lawyer on the other side is, an Italian lawyer or German lawyer and the common language they have is English.

00:02:38:13 - 00:02:46:01

Laura

I see. So it kind of accommodates for the, the global world that we live in and the interactions lawyers are going to be having in their day to day lives.

00:02:46:01 - 00:03:00:11

Natasha

Yeah. And just the fact that, global business, you know, everything is so much more international now and, and that's the same for, for lawyers, even if they're dealing with French law, they have to explain that in English sometimes.

00:03:00:13 - 00:03:17:14

Laura

Oh, wow. You see, it's a whole world I'm not familiar with. I'm really interested to learn a bit more about other paths into teaching legal English. Of course, as your pathway. You started as solicitor, then moved into education. Do educators join via other routes into this field?

00:03:17:16 - 00:03:44:09

Natasha

Yes. So I would perhaps start by saying I think there are two main groups of legal English learners. So you have legal professionals as I mentioned. So lawyers working in law firms or in-house lawyers working in a company. On the other hand, you've got university law students, so you've got those two main groups and some people like me have, a legal background, and then they go into teaching.

00:03:44:11 - 00:04:12:05

Natasha

But other people might be, for example, business English teachers and then they have some clients who are lawyers and they might decide, well, I quite like teaching lawyers. And so then they start to specialise in legal English. So I know people who've done that. And the university level, you have some linguists or some people who've specialised in English, and they can be teaching at a university.

00:04:12:07 - 00:04:40:05

Natasha

And again, perhaps they end up teaching some law students and they like that. And so they specialise in legal English and, I'm a member, I'm on the board of an association called EuLETA the European Legal English Teachers Association. And I think that's reflected in our membership, which is really diverse. We have lawyers, we have linguists, we have lawyer-linguists, we have translators.

00:04:40:07 - 00:04:44:20

Natasha

And, I think that's great because we can all learn from each other.

00:04:44:22 - 00:05:04:12

Laura

That's wonderful. It's such a diverse group of people that can end up taking this path in teaching legal English. For those, including myself, that don't know much about legal English and teaching the subject, could you give some insights into what it involves? And you know the type of input we give students, and maybe what was preparing students for?

00:05:04:14 - 00:05:33:07

Natasha

Yeah. Big question. okay. So again, if you take those two different groups with legal professionals, it can involve helping them, perhaps to prepare for client meetings in English or writing emails and things that business English teachers would be familiar with. But then lawyers also have other skills that they need to practice in English. So it could be contract drafting or contract negotiation.

00:05:33:09 - 00:05:58:10

Natasha

Or, for example, I had to help a lawyer prepare for an arbitration hearing in English. So that was really interesting. and also lawyers tend to specialise in a particular area of law. So for example, they could be, an employment lawyer or an intellectual property lawyer. And so it might be about helping them with vocabulary for a particular area of law.

00:05:58:12 - 00:06:24:02

Natasha

So that's sort of the legal professionals. And then with university students, I think that can be very varied. I mean, often that's more a case of teaching vocabulary and grammar. But even if I'm doing that, I try to make it very practical and I try to sort of bring real life scenarios into the classroom to practice the language.

00:06:24:04 - 00:06:55:02

Natasha

but at some universities, the legal English programs will look at the legal systems in the United States, and England, for example. So I could be learning about the court system, the different types of legal professions that the Constitution, there could be elements of legal history and even politics as well. So can be very varied and quite interesting.

00:06:55:04 - 00:07:21:06

Natasha

perhaps a final point I should mention is that there is a test of legal English which exists, so we know it as the acronym TOLES; T, O, L, E, S, test of Legal English skills. And in some universities, they will run a program that's designed to help prepare the students for that test. So, yeah, lots of lots of different things that are involved in legal English teaching.

00:07:21:11 - 00:07:45:24

Laura

When you put it that way, like it doesn't sound any different from any other kind of English for a specific purposes. Of course, there's elements of vocabulary and grammar that specific to that context. But when you're mentioning, like preparing for certain meetings and, court hearings and stuff, it's very situational. Communicate communicative teaching and setting up students for success to be able to navigate those scenarios with confidence.

00:07:45:24 - 00:08:07:00

Natasha

Yeah, yeah. I agree, I think, all I would add is that, you know, lawyers do have these specific skills like contract drafting. And, you know, there is specific legal language or language that lawyers use. and so that's that that's just one of the, the differences. But yeah.

00:08:07:05 - 00:08:20:20

Laura

Could you give us a little insight taster of like for example, a lesson on something legal English would contain, like maybe this example of grammar or vocabulary. Do any particular examples come to mind.

00:08:20:22 - 00:08:42:23

Natasha

Yes. Yes okay. Yeah I can give you an example. So, one of the things I teach a lot is the language of contract law, because contracts are a big part of, a lawyer's job in, in lots of different areas of law. And so with contract law, we can talk about the language for deciding whether you have a contract.

00:08:42:24 - 00:09:19:03

Natasha

There's certain vocabulary, for that. but I'm thinking in particular, if you think of grammar, I think in particular of, of the language for giving advice to a client, perhaps about a contract. and how you formulate your, your sentences for that. So these words, like I suggest doing something, I recommend doing something. and again, what I would do is whether it's a university student or a legal professional is have a real life scenario, a client comes to see you.

00:09:19:05 - 00:09:29:13

Natasha

This is, they've got a, an issue with the contract. And, can you advise them, what they can do? And so then they can practice using that language.

00:09:29:13 - 00:09:53:24

Laura

For people listening who may be thinking, oh, you know, I'm a business English teacher, not I'd like to explore, teaching legal English and like, developing my skills to potentially explore this avenue. Or maybe there's actually legal English teachers who are listening now thinking, I actually want to explore other avenues of law, like you mentioned. to expand my repertoire of law, different types of lawyers I work with.

00:09:54:01 - 00:09:59:16

Laura

What are some resources that, these teachers can go to to start developing those skills?

00:09:59:18 - 00:10:27:05

Natasha

So first of all, I will mention again, EuLETA the European Legal English Teachers Association. As I said, I'm on the board of that association and it's been around for nearly 20 years now. And I mention that because, we have monthly teacher network meetings for our members, and we usually have a legal English teaching theme. So last month it was teaching legal writing.

00:10:27:07 - 00:11:13:13

Natasha

but really, it's just an informal way of getting together and exchanging ideas and experiences and sharing resources. So I think that's really good. We also have, an in-person conference once a year as well. so in September that will be in, Brussels. So that's it. That's that's really helpful, I think, for, for teachers, in terms of resources, I think when I, when I started teaching legal English, I got hold of a book by Rupert Hague which was called Legal English, but it's now called International Legal English.

00:11:13:15 - 00:11:43:23

Natasha

And, I think that's very useful as a reference book because he really highlights the vocabulary and grammar that, more specific to legal English as opposed to other types of English. so I think that's a good book. And I have to mention the book that I've co-written with Louise Kulbicki. So we've written a book called Practical English Language Skills for lawyers, and that was published last year.

00:11:43:23 - 00:12:25:14

Natasha

And that's a course book, which can be used for self-study or for teachers in the classroom. And, it's different from other, legal English course books because each chapter is based on a skill. So, for example, telephone calls or client meetings or contract drafting. but the reason I want to mention it is because we have also produced a set of teacher notes to go with our book to give teachers, ideas for how to adapt some of the activities in the book, to their lessons, and also for extra links for teachers as well, links to extra resources.

00:12:25:20 - 00:12:45:23

Laura

That's brilliant. Thank you so much for those suggestions. And as always, for our listeners, those links to the organisation, EULETA and also those that your book and the other book you recommended are all in the show notes, if you can find them easily. Natasha, it's been lovely talking to you today and discovering more about this world of legal English.

00:12:45:23 - 00:12:54:00

Laura

This is the first time we've talked about this on the TESOL Pop podcast. So thank you so much for breaking the ice and opening up, space for conversation.

00:12:54:02 - 00:13:01:09

Natasha

Thank you for having me. It's been great to talk about, teaching legal English. And if any listeners want to know more, they can contact me, that’s fine.

00:13:01:11 - 00:13:16:04

Laura

If you have a question that you'd like us to answer or you have a topic that you'd like us to talk about and support, you can contact us via Instagram, Facebook or the website of TESOLPop.com, finally, you can support the work we do at TESOL Pop by leaving a rating and review wherever you listen to the podcast.

00:13:16:04 - 00:13:23:06

Laura

By sharing today's episode with your teaching community, or by even buying as a coffee at ko-fi.com/tesolpop

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