S8E7: Debunking Myths About Dyslexia & Language Learning

Founder of PolCa Languages, Ania Karwowska, talks about myths surrounding dyslexia and language learning. Ania draws from research to address three prevalent myths and what we can do instead to support learners.

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Key talking points

Myth 1: Dyslexic-Friendly Fonts

Ania debunks the idea that specific fonts are more accessible for dyslexic learners. She emphasises that dyslexia is a neurological condition and not a vision issue. Thus, alternative fonts do not effectively aid dyslexic learners in reading. Ania stresses the importance of teaching reading skills rather than relying on fonts.

Myth 2: Color Overlays

Similarly, Ania explains that colour overlays do not alleviate dyslexia-related challenges in reading. She clarifies that dyslexia is rooted in brain function and recommends focusing on structural language approaches to address dyslexic learners' needs.

Myth 3: Specific Teaching Methods

Ania highlights the misconception that specific teaching methods are superior for dyslexic students. She advocates for a structured approach to language learning, emphasising phonological aspects. Ania discourages methods that oversimplify reading or attribute dyslexia to vision issues.

Tips for Teachers

Ania provides practical advice for teachers working with dyslexic students. She suggests starting with a needs analysis, identifying areas of difficulty in writing, and focusing on fundamental language structures. Ania stresses patience, gradual implementation of changes, and fostering open dialogue with learners.

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About Ania

Ania is the founder of PolCa Languages, where she shares her research and learning on dyslexia in bilingual children.

She is also an English Philologist, Orton Gillingham and Phonographix educator, as well as the mother to a bilingual dyslexic son.

To learn more about Ania’s work, visit her website.

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Watch the video with closed captions or refer to the transcript below.

Transcript

00:00:00:04 - 00:00:24:24

Laura

TESOL Pop Season eight Episode seven Hello, welcome to TESOL Pop: the mini podcast for busy teachers. My name is Laura and joining me today to talk about debunking myths in dyslexia and language learning is Ania Karwowska. Ania I will be talking about three common myths in dyslexia from dyslexic friendly fonts, to colour overlays, to particular methods that we could use for each one.

00:00:24:24 - 00:00:45:24

Laura

She's going to walk through why these are a myth and what we should be doing instead to support our dyslexic students. Now, before we go into today's interview, let me tell you about some of the events that are happening at TESOL Pop, so you don't miss out this week. On the 28th of February, I'm hosting a free workshop with ELi Publishing Group on podcasting.

00:00:46:01 - 00:01:08:09

Laura

So if you would like to use podcast media with your teenage or adult students, then you can sign up for this free workshop by going to the TESOL Pop website, as well as seeing all the other events we have scheduled for this upcoming conference season. What's more, if you are interested in recording your own podcast, then spaces for my Podcast Pathfinder [programme]

00:01:08:13 - 00:01:24:13

Laura

are still available, but enrolment is closing soon. Again, to find out more about this programme, go to the website or click on the show notes. Now let's jump to my conversation with Ania where I started by asking you what inspired her to start researching dyslexia and language learning.

00:01:24:17 - 00:01:45:03

Ania

The first time was, my goodness, 20 years ago when I walked into a classroom and this was a very specific school because it called an experimental school in Warsaw, so we had students in high school, high achieving student who are supposed to go to university and do great things. And we had a class It was called a Vocational Experimental Class.

00:01:45:05 - 00:02:08:03

Ania

The kids were supposed to be waiters and clerks. And one teacher told me, ‘Well, you know you’re not going to do much with them.’ And I said, ‘You know what, that's an interesting; challenge accepted.’ So it turned out that the kids were dyslexic and or ADHD. We worked for a year. They all passed FCE [First Cambridge English Exam]. They were brilliant, really. They had been curious and went to university - they went to another school to get the matriculation.

00:02:08:04 - 00:02:33:11

Ania

So they went to university. The kids were really amazing and that taught me that you can do it. You just have to know how to do it. And then my son was born and actually I moved to Canada and I was on a quest for him to have decent education. Then I started working with other parents, and it dawned on me that ‘wow, those kids [with dyslexia] not only fall for the cracks, but they are expected to not to learn.’

00:02:33:13 - 00:02:35:02

Ania

So that's how it started.

00:02:35:04 - 00:02:54:17

Laura

So that’s why I'm so glad that we're recording this episode today to kind of create more space for these conversations to be having and for teachers to feel empowered, to do research and to lean into what may seem like a field that's outside of their expertise - it’s something we can learn. There’s things we can learn, I think.

00:02:54:17 - 00:03:12:08

Laura

Let's start with obviously dispelling the common myths. So we have three myths today. Are you ready for the first one to knock it out of the park? Okay. So myth number one: There are particular fonts that are more accessible. For example, fonts that are easier for students with dyslexia to read.

00:03:12:10 - 00:03:32:13

Ania

You know, that's very interesting. You should say this because I had a discussion about fonts only yesterday and the discussion was very heated. So there was a lot of research, like Professor Timothy Shanahan from the University of Chicago, the Doctor Nadine Gaab from GAAB LAB, the University of Harvard just to name a few. They have been talking that dyslexic fonts do much work, right?

00:03:32:15 - 00:03:52:15

Ania

Right. Because dyslexia is not a vision issue. And I think, like I know that teachers have best interests at heart. And definitely they have so much to cater to and so many students with diverse needs. So I understand it's very difficult to sift for every piece of research. But just to reiterate, dyslexic fonts do not work.

00:03:52:20 - 00:04:16:23

Ania

If someone finds that useful, that's fantastic. I say kudos to you. Beautiful, but we call it individual experience. So it is a lived experience and we can say that’s important, it’s valid, but it's only valid for that person who has that experience. We cannot quantify it because there’s this theory dyslexic fonts do not work. So you have to teach the student to read.

00:04:17:03 - 00:04:38:21

Ania

You have to teach them the participle, teach them how to the language works. You have to teach them how to blend phonemes into a syllable, how to create a word. What is an answer? What is a rhyme you can come up with all the fonts in the world, simplify them, create your own font. I don't know.

00:04:38:23 - 00:05:04:04

Ania

But if you not teach your students to read. And I think the worst thing is that if students fail and they will, they will blame themselves. So the self esteem is already low and it will get lower just because they think that ‘what's wrong with me?’ I mean, ‘if that font is not helping me, so there has to be something fundamentally wrong with me.’ They will not say, ‘okay, this doesn’t work.’ They will say ‘I do not work. I’m to blame.’

00:05:04:06 - 00:05:22:03

Laura

Like with any of these things we're talking about today, you have a huge impact on a student's self-esteem. And teachers, too, if they're trying all these things, thinking that they work because there's so much publicity about them, it can also be very disheartening for the teacher too feeling like they're not good enough or that there's something that they're missing.

00:05:22:05 - 00:05:49:07

Laura

But this is really a big one to address first. And just to clarify, because I think there is some overlap between visibility and what's accessible on a visible, visible level. Like I wear glasses, I need to be a certain size font, some fonts easier for me to read just because just because that's due to my eyesight, not due to dyslexia, Right?

00:05:49:07 - 00:05:50:02

Laura

That's what we're saying here.

00:05:50:02 - 00:06:03:12

Ania

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not dyslexic, but I read on my e-reader, I often use larger fonts because especially when I'm tired tonight, like spent hours writing by the computer or writing. I get tired. So.

00:06:03:16 - 00:06:05:17

Laura

Me too. Yeah.

00:06:05:19 - 00:06:24:24

Ania

I would space out texts when I'm writing just because I'm tired and I get fatigued or I use bigger fonts. But that's not so that I'm a better reader. It's just because of my eyesight that especially in this time of year when it's getting darker sooner, it's getting worse.

00:06:25:01 - 00:06:45:11

Laura

Absolutely. I think this is the key thing, isn't it? Eyesight access, design, clarity, that is design and then dyslexia separate things not not so much as a interlocking. That's fantastic. That's our first one. So there's no such thing as a dyslexic friendly font. We've got two more to go that are perhaps going to really surprise our listeners.

00:06:45:11 - 00:07:01:16

Laura

So let's move on to the second one. Myth two: Colour overlays that we can place over our computer screens or printed text even can make it easier for us to read text or make it easier for dyslexic students to read text. Is that true?

00:07:01:18 - 00:07:32:08

Ania

No, I probably should have said but first dyslexia fundamentally, dyslexia is neurobiology in origin - it’s in your brain. I t doesn't have anything to do with your eyes. As I say, the eyes are like the doors that open. But if you look at the eyeball that all the nerves are connected to our brain. We read with our brain. You do not read. I know it sounds probably weird for some people, but we do not believe our eyes so it doesn't work.

00:07:32:10 - 00:07:57:07

Ania

And again, we have to teach the students to read. And for teachers do not waste a precious time because teachers so fundamentally they want to do everything to help the students. And then they're frustrated because it's not working and that’s understandable. The student is frustrated because it's not working. And like the whole idea of a classroom now is shattered because the teacher is obsessed - ‘But it's not working.

00:07:57:08 - 00:08:10:00

Ania

Like, I’ve tried the fonts, I've tried overlays.’ The student is just like, ‘What's wrong with me?’ The teacher says, ‘What's wrong with me?’ You know, they’re both at the same point when they start doubting themselves because it's not working.

00:08:10:02 - 00:08:28:19

Laura

So with this colour overlays, because I read things about colour contrasts and I think this is similar to the fonts that we just discussed as well about a design principles about font sizes, spacing and the contrast between the colour of the font and the background. Is that also the same or is that something different?

00:08:28:21 - 00:08:52:08

Ania

It's the vision, it's the vision issue. So it is like it's not connected to dyslexia. There was even a research of flickering, flickering colours. It has been published I think last year [2023] that shows that no, it's not working. Again, it's not a dyslexia remedy. I think it's something that is like a thing from the past where we didn't have a lot of research, the neuroscience wasn't as prominent.

00:08:52:14 - 00:09:09:19

Ania

We couldn't test, we couldn't see we couldn't assess how students are going. So we're trying, you know, like trial and error, and that's normal. However, we are at a different, let's say, step in of a history in our development. So, no they are not working.

00:09:09:21 - 00:09:26:03

Laura

Again, this is a vision issue and obviously it's nice to have these things like colour contrast and spacing because it makes things more easy to read, particularly if you're on a small device like a phone. Yeah, it's just good design, isn't it? But not dyslexic friendly People think it’s dyslexic-friendly, but it's not the same.

00:09:26:07 - 00:09:37:10

Ania

Yeah, it's not dyslexia friendly, it's a good design. So again, if someone likes it, absolutely. But, I wouldn't use it as a remedy or as a tool to help your dyslexic students.

00:09:37:12 - 00:09:57:06

Laura

So finally, we've got one more myth, and that's related to teaching methods. So myth number three: there's a specific teaching method that's better than the rest. I'm not going to name any, but let's just hypothetically think of, like, specific methods that are out there that are supposedly really good at helping dyslexic students.

00:09:57:08 - 00:10:18:12

Ania

So, a method that I wouldn't be using. So first of all, I would just say when you think of dyslexia, if you can think how language works, language is like a structure, so let's say the languages that are syllable based, the languages that are morphophonemic-like English. So focus on the language. I say a structural approach to language.

00:10:18:14 - 00:10:44:01

Ania

Think of it as a piece. Literally, there is that there is an overlap. So approach a language like a structure. I'd say, for example, reading there is a concept, we call it a Scarborough [Reading] Rope. There are many skills that come into skilled reading. So you have decoding and coding that's like the base, and then we have morphology, syntax, grammar and on the top we have critical thinking, which is the cherry on top.

00:10:44:05 - 00:11:14:02

Ania

So this is working. Anyone who tells you that you can create mental images in your head. That reading is a whole process. It's not. We literally reading with, reading with phoneme and then grapheme. That's how reading works. So avoid any method that tells you that we read words as a whole. Revoke any method that teaches you that you can create mental images or that tells you that dyslexia is a vision issue.

00:11:14:04 - 00:11:27:05

Ania

I would say just this and you'll be golden. Focus on the language or a structured approach to language and how the brain processes language and then you will know where to start.

00:11:27:07 - 00:11:46:06

Laura

Do you have any tips for teachers who are listening in terms of like how they can move forward today? Having learned what they've learned and wanting to help their students, they probably identified a few a few students who may be dyslexic in their classes and they're wondering, well, what should I do? How can I best help them?

00:11:46:08 - 00:12:06:12

Ania

What I'll say, for starters, ask them to write. If you have students who are writing, ask them to give you a real piece of text four or five sentences. Do not ask them to correct it, or cross it out. Write it, give it to me, forget about it. Don't get upset. It's not about marking. And then you will see what mistakes are they're making. Are they're phonological mistakes.

00:12:06:12 - 00:12:34:01

Ania

For example, some students have made a mistake when they write voiced as voiceless sounds, and vice versa. Or they struggle with -tion, T-I-O-N [endings], right. They, for example, write it as C-I-O-N. And so we'll see whether it's phonological. So those certain sounds that they cannot hear, but they cannot process phonologically. Sometimes it’s phonological, some phonemic words you have to work on. Or there’s some morphological mistakes because they do not understand how it works.

00:12:34:03 - 00:13:03:16

Ania

And then I would just, if I were in the classroom, I would just start with addressing those. So if you have to go back to the basics, ask your student to map phonemes and graphemes Have one minute drills - segmenting initial, final initial syllable blending drills, have a minute or two and then say, okay, you know [if] this method didn’t work. That’s okay, you know, that’s fine.

00:13:03:19 - 00:13:34:03

Ania

We just move on. We do this without any further explanation. I just go back to the basics. I know that students, especially parents, don't like it because they want to rush through and get the results. And I say it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. And when you go back to the basics, it's the same with grammar. But even for English teachers, before we start talking about present, simple, present, continuous, past perfect continuous conditional clauses and passive voice, and your student just looks at you like this and said, okay, I have no idea what you're talking about.

00:13:34:05 - 00:14:00:23

Ania

Go back to subject verb object. Explain how the simplest structure, how it works, and then expand it and only then introduce the first tense. Because even the simplest, such as the present simple, it takes so much to process. I would say in terms of grammar, multi-sensory grammar is fantastic for dyslexic students, I use it a lot and I'm a huge fan really.

00:14:01:00 - 00:14:06:23

Ania

So I would say, start with this and don't get upset. You're not going to like do it within a day and it’s okay.

00:14:06:23 - 00:14:07:02

Ania

00:14:07:23 - 00:14:23:19

Ania

It's like driving a car, riding a bike. It takes time. So give yourself space and grace as well. Be good to yourself. You're doing well. You want to spark it and it's fantastic. One step at a time and it's going to be just better and better.

00:14:23:21 - 00:14:36:22

Laura

I think that's wonderful advice to end on, starting with a needs analysis, trying things, reflecting and don't worry too much if it doesn't work, there's other options and you can work with your student to find what works for them.

00:14:36:24 - 00:14:38:06

Ania

Exactly.

00:14:38:08 - 00:14:41:12

Laura

It's been lovely talking to you, Ania. Thank you so much for your time.

00:14:41:14 - 00:14:43:12

Ania

Thank you so much for having me.

00:14:43:14 - 00:24:51:19

Laura

To find out more about Ania’s work, you can go to her website polcalanguages.kartra.com or you can connect with her on LinkedIn and both those links are in the show notes so you can access those easily. Finally, you can support the work we do at TESOL Pop by leaving a rating review wherever you listen to the podcast, by sharing today's episode with your community or by even buying a coffee at ko-fi.com/tesolpop.

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